March 5, 2025 – Next month, two candidates from central Wisconsin will square off for the post of State Bar of Wisconsin president-elect. In this Q&A, Stephen W. Sawyer and Johanna R. Kirk discuss their ideas for meeting the challenges facing the State Bar, if elected.

Kirk (Hamline 2006) is with Kirk Law Office LLC in Thorp. Sawyer (Notre Dame 1996) is with Sawyer Law LLC in Stevens Point. You can learn more about the candidates in this profile article, published in February.

The winner of the 2025 election in April will serve a one-year term as president-elect, then serve a subsequent one-year term as president starting July 1, 2026.

In your opinion, what makes a successful State Bar president?

Johanna Kirk: A successful State Bar president improves the practice and lives of attorneys, advances justice, and does it in a way so almost no one notices. A successful State Bar president fosters and improves the relationships between the Bar, the Courts, the legislature, and our regional and state-wide stakeholders.

Stephen Sawyer: A successful State Bar president is a person who helps the organization build upon the countless ways in which the State Bar has achieved its mission of “maintaining high standards of conduct in the legal profession and by aiding in the efficient administration of justice.” SCR 10.01(2). This is done by continuing and fine-tuning what has proven successful over the many decades that the State Bar has been in existence, and also coming up with new strategies to address areas of concern, whether they be issues that have existed for a while or emerging issues in the practice of law.

A successful State Bar president works with the State Bar staff, the Executive Committee, the Board of Governors, the various committees and divisions, as well as the membership at large to harness the collective wisdom and strength of our amazing organization in addressing the challenges of our profession.

A successful State Bar president establishes and maintains a good working relationship with the Supreme Court of Wisconsin, the judiciary as a whole, and the other two branches of state government to improve the administration of justice in Wisconsin.

A successful State Bar president must be mission-focused, innovative, and collaborative. It is often the leader who listens, analyzes, and builds consensus who achieves more success than one who pushes forward with predetermined plans and an intractable agenda.

The State Bar has about 25,000 members (15,000 active in Wisconsin), 24 sections, and 4 divisions. How can the State Bar best serve a membership with such diverse needs and different challenges?

Stephen Sawyer: The State Bar can best serve its heterogeneous membership by acknowledging that a one-size-fits-all approach will not address the needs of everyone. Some attorneys benefit greatly from the practice management assistance that the State Bar provides. Other attorneys benefit more from the continuing legal education programs that the State Bar provides. Others benefit from the legal research tools, or the available publications, or the ethics advice. Some benefit from programs such as WisLAP, or the State Bar’s fee arbitration program.

It is important to note that while not every member directly accesses these numerous State Bar programs, products, or services, EVERY member does indirectly benefit from the contributions that these various components make to maintaining high standards of conduct in the legal profession and to the efficiency of our court systems. We can all be proud that a lawyer licensed to practice in the State of Wisconsin has the tools, services, and assistance necessary to be a highly competent legal practitioner.

Johanna Kirk: The State Bar tends to put members in boxes – solo/small firm lawyers, government lawyers, bankruptcy lawyers, appellate lawyers, senior lawyers, young lawyers, and more. While our practice areas may categorize us in a box, we are more than our job. We are people. We may be married, divorced, parents, or not. We reflect different races, genders, religions. We are influenced by demands put on us by clients, student loans, employers, family and friends. We all have our individual challenges and would likely be surprised to learn that our challenges are shared with other lawyers who may be very different from us. Perhaps the State Bar could do a better job of going beyond categorizing us by our practice. Perhaps the State Bar could help connect us with others having similar challenges, so that we can learn from one another despite our differences. The diversity of the Bar is a resource, not a challenge.

Where do you see the future of the legal profession headed, and what can the State Bar do to best prepare its members for the future?

Johanna Kirk: I do not pretend to predict the future. I use my current environment as a beacon for what is coming. Our profession is always in a state of change, just like the law. The future is artificial intelligence influencing the legal system and our practices. The future is more remote work and court appearances. The future is collaborative relationships to help fill gaps in legal services. The future likely brings financial challenges to our judicial system and people who need access to it. The State Bar must continue offering us training in technology, substantive law, and practice management. The State Bar must make informed and deliberate decisions about benefits such as health care, retirement planning, and practice resources. The State Bar needs to be an advocate for the resources we need to continue providing justice to our clients and communities.

Stephen Sawyer: New technologies assisted by artificial intelligence continue to emerge. It is not yet clear exactly how these technologies will affect the practice of law, but it is quite clear that they will change our clients’ expectations and our profession. The State Bar must continue to monitor these developing technologies and educate its members on the potential applications as well as advise its members and consumers of legal services as to the potential pitfalls and shortcomings of AI.

We are also witnessing in real time a growing shortfall in attorneys serving Wisconsin communities outside of our largest cities. As attorneys practicing in our smaller cities and towns and more rural areas are retiring, we are seeing a marked lack of younger attorneys establishing or moving their practices into these locations to satisfy the demand for legal services. This trend will only worsen as time goes on without initiating innovative programs and strategies designed to counteract the trend or lessen its effects. The State Bar with the help of private donations and the work of the Wisconsin Law Foundation have started some limited programs to determine what works and what doesn’t work in addressing these growing needs. After analyzing alternatives, the State Bar should work with the state Legislature to find funding for programs that will have a larger scope with the benefit of having studied what programs attributes have the most impact for the dollars spent.

What, if anything, should the State Bar be doing differently to ensure the organization is providing significant value for all members?

Stephen Sawyer: I believe that communication with our members is the key to providing value. Our organization cannot know what our members need without getting feedback and asking for input. As stated earlier, we are a very numerous and diverse group with widely varying needs. The State Bar must employ a variety of methods at soliciting ideas and participation in crafting the products, services and programs that will allow our members to maintain high standards in their practices.

We must also be willing to take a hard look at those products, services and programs that are not providing sufficient value to our membership and make the right decisions regarding reducing or eliminating these from our offerings. The State Bar should never become an organization that values growth solely for the sake of the organization. We exist to serve our members, our profession, and to aid in the efficient administration of justice. It is essential that the State Bar focus on its stated mission – the mission given to us by the Supreme Court of Wisconsin to serve the profession and to serve the public good.

Johanna Kirk: To ensure the organization is providing significant value for all members, the State Bar should listen to members. The services and benefits offered by the Bar must reflect our needs and challenges. The members’ needs should be directing the State Bar’s initiatives, goals, and programs.

Is there a specific problem that you would address, or a specific goal that you would like to achieve as State Bar president?

Johanna Kirk: The State Bar’s top issue currently is the shortage of attorneys in rural areas. The State Bar has initiated action to combat this problem (rural clerkship program, rural practice incentives). If elected, I would like the State Bar to engage government, nonprofit, and for-profit stakeholders to help with this problem. The State Bar does not need to, and should not be expected to, solve this problem alone.

I believe burnout and wellness continue to be a problem which creates opportunities for the State Bar to evaluate and improve services. The State Bar can look at its current services and benefits, such as WisLAP, and identify areas for improvement in programs, methods of delivery, and access to services.

Stephen Sawyer: I believe that there are three main problems that the State Bar should look to address in the coming years. The first is the shortage of attorneys establishing and maintaining practices that serve our more rural communities.

The second is the lack of funding for civil legal aid. Recent studies have shown that when civil litigants are represented by counsel there are huge benefits to the court system in efficiency. For every dollar that is spent on an attorney, indigent clients on average experience eight dollars of benefit in things like child support, alimony, and reduction of court-ordered financial obligations. The positive aspects of civil legal aid benefit ALL of society, not just the few, and should be adequately funded (as they are in neighboring states).

The third is the lack of value placed upon our legal system by the taxpayers in the State of Wisconsin. I believe that the State Bar needs to seek input into educational initiatives to teach civics in our schools, and to establish programs to teach civics to adults in our communities. As a society, if we truly want equal justice for all, we must put our money where our mouth is.

Finish this sentence in 30 words or less: I am the best person to lead the State Bar because:

Stephen Sawyer: I love the law, and have the breadth of life experience, legal experience, and leadership skills that can combine to be a force for positive change in our profession.

Johanna Kirk: I have volunteered for the State Bar since 2006. I have knowledge of Bar history, policies, and goals. My experience makes me the best person to lead the State Bar.